Bench-Talk

 Barrel cleaning doesn't get alot of attention nowdays... with all the new "concockshuns"  but cleaning a barrel is important and a must. Don't get me wrong with all the new things coming out on the market there are some very reliable cleaning agents on the market. My thinking that with all the new things out there that cleaning has changed almost to a science. NO ? I have played with most of them at one time or another to try and find out what is needed and what is overkill. First you have to understand that no two barrels are the same and whats good for one might not be good for the other. So, in short you have to come up with a procedure for just about every barrel. Yes, basically the some but some difference. 

For example... at the range I use a mixture of Top engine cleaner and Kroil and clean as little as possible, sometimes only once a yardage depending on the barrel. When I get home I run a couple of patches of rubbing alcohol down the bore and then use Wipe Out. Sometimes leaving it in overnight. Works well. I also find that the cleaner th barrel is the more it takes to get the point of impact back to normal.  Using a bore scope to check results when the Wipe Out has done its job and there is virtually no copper left in the barrel I find it takes 3 foulers to bring it back to battery so to speak... if I leave some copper in the bore it only will take 2 rounds  and if I leave no copper on the edges of the lands and just some to fill the pot holes to speak it shoots where I look.  So, My question is :  Are we cleaning too much....or does it even hurt anything. I do not use a brush at all in my procedure. 

I am sure many of you have your own method that works well for you. Give us you idea of what you found to work well and why. I have not mentioned moly coating here but the moly coaters should weigh in here too.

Francis, I have been watching some of your students of bench rest and I have noticed they clean every relay. Can you give us some insight on this. I am sure our readers would enjoy your ideas and thoughts on this subject. 

SGR 

 I voted no in the survey but I do still use a brush in my 6BR and 6PPC's but never in my 30's

I use DanZac coatingg on all my bullets and only clean at end of an aggregate.

Dick

I clean after every Relay.  I don't always brush, but I do Brush about every third or fourth relay.  In cleaning I use GM top angine and lots of patches.  After a dry patch, I'll run a wetted patch with Penephite down the barrel to condition the bore.  If I don't use the brush I find that after 4 relays my barrels develop a bit of copper that can be seen near the muzzle, I notice it when wiping the square crown (another question).  I too would like a slight 45* at the end of the Barrel, but my smith thinks that's for guns that take a beating, not BR rifles.  At the end of the day, two Aggs, I generally clean also with some sweats 7.62 to remove any additional copper that may be building up.  Our .30 BR barrels last at least 6000 rounds, and are very competitive to that point.  I should also add, all are bullets are coated with either Danzac, (WS2) or Boron Nitride (BN).

Paul

I am a cheap skate when it comes to putting bullets down range. I shoot very few foulers or sighters. It isn't uncommon for me to use 37 - 38 rounds for a 100 yard agg. I am not a cheap skate when it comes to cleaning my rifle. I clean after every relay. My normal regimen is to run two or three patches wet with GM Top Engine Cleaner down the bore and let it soak while I prep brass and re-load. I always re-load as I go. I then run a couple dry patches down the bore. If these patches show a streak of dirt, I wet the bore again and brush with GM TEC. I can almost count on brushing after match two and match four. As Paul mentioned above, we use either DanZac or Boron Nitride coated bullets. I do the same whether I am shooting 30BR or 6PPC. Now you may ask why I spend so much time cleaning. The answer is simple; it is by popular demand. If I have time on my hjands I generally pester other people. Cleaning keeps me out of trouble. Once home, if I feel the bore has been taking too much effort to clean, I'll run some Flitz or JB paste cleaner back and forth in the barrel.

Cleaning is NOT one of my favorite pastimes. I shoot the 100-200 then clean. I come home and use Wipeout without accelerator. Let it soak overnight and then patch it out, then again the next morning. Sometimes a third time is necessary depending on the color. A couple patches with alcohol, then patch dry. I also use Rem-Clean if I clean at the range or at multi-day events. I never use a brush. The only time I use oil is at the end of the season. This process my not be the best choice but all barrels don’t last forever. In my 30x47, accuracy seems to start slipping somewhere around the 2500-3000 mark in the (button) barrels I have used. Those of you that clean after every match, what kind of barrel life do you get?

CJ

Your methods work for you; that's for sure. My present Rock Creek cut rifled barrel has well over 3500 rounds through it and it is still winning. I have a different analogy about what wears a barrel out. I think carbon fouling will wear a barrel out before "proper" cleaning will. By proper I mean with the use of a good bore guide; we use Mike Lucas bore guides and inserts, we use a proper fitting brush and jag on stainless steel Ivy or Pro-Tech rods, we don't abuse the equipment. I brush just enough to weaken the copper so that the copper remover can do its job. I don't just stand there counting strokes of the brush "15-16-17-18-19-20". I push and pull slowly and feel the effort needed. As that drops off, about 4 round trips, I removed the brush and put more chemical in the bore and let it sit there while I load. I don't think proper use of the cleaning equipment will wear a barrel out significantly quicker. In fact, I believe proper carbon removal will add to barrel life. Secondly, winning is the most important thing and I feel a clean barrel shoots more predictably than a dirty one.

I have been shooting Score Benchrest since 1999. I have gone through a lot of different cleaning methods during that time. I have never shot anything except 30 Cal rifles during this time. I began by cleaning after every relay, like most of the others did. I then decided to clean every two relays, then twice a day and finaly, only after I get back home or if I am at a multiple day shoot, at the end of the day and then a very sparce clean. I have been using coated bullets most of this time and believe that there is less fouling by using coated bullets.

Some time ago, I read a post by Mickey Coleman, I think it was, who said that he takes the .0000 steel wool wraped around a brush to his barrels every so often. A few weeks ago, remembering that post, I deided to give it a go. I also thought adding a good dose of JB on the steel wool surely couldn't hurt anything. I have a rifle I have been shooting steadily all year and upon borescoping it I could see what looked like cracks that had filled up with carbon and some that looked like they had filled with copper. After 20 strokkes with the brush/steel wool/JB I patched it out and to my surprise the entire barrel looked like new, no hint of firecracking and no cracks filled with copper and carbon.

Since then, I am now cleaning all of my barrels this way. It is very fast and they sure are clean using this method. Like I said , I don't buy brushes damaging barrel bores nor do I believe that either 0000 or JB will harm a bore either. I have also had good results using IOSSO on either a patch or a nylon brush. When I want all the copper out I use Eliminator. It will flat take all the copper out of a barrel. I am also wondering if it is necessary or wise to clean barrels down to their nekked self. If they need to be fouled to shoot right, why take all of it out? 

I have to agree with Stan Ware's comment that every barrel requires a different procedure for cleaning.  I use a borescope as part of my cleaning regimen.  If after cleaning, I see carbon, I'll use a brass brush or some JB.  I clean very carefully and efficiently since using a borescope and in retrospect, I used to clean too much.  The important thing to remember is that you don't want fouling and copper start to 'layer' in the bore.  A bore does not need to be squeaky clean to shoot well but does need to have most of the fouling and copper removed. 

Beginning in 1988, and ever since, I don't do much of this . . . and NEVER use a brush : the want of a brushing usually indicating the need of a new barrel . . .  ;) RG

Stan

You need to add an extra "it depends" option to your quiz.

In my 100 – 200 yard rifle (6PPC) I shoot moly coated bullets and only clean once per yardage. When cleaning after a yardage, I use patches
with solvent (primarily TM Solution) and also one or two patches with Iosso or JB paste (these need to be very tight fitting patches, with
the paste rubbed into the patch, then some solvent to lube the whole thing). Back during the 2 or so years I shot uncoated bullets, I used
to clean after every group. For that I used Butch's Bore Solvent on patches and also a bronze brush. At the end of each yardage, I cleaned
with an abrasive (Iosso or JB).

When it comes to my long range BR rifles or my higher intensity hunting cartridges, I use a bronze brush more often, though I also use
an abrasive paste. On my 308 Baer, it is very difficult to stop carbon (and consequently copper) fouling, even WITH regular cleaning and the
use of brushes / paste.