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September 2007 - Posts - Bench-Talk
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Bench-Talk

Where Shooters Gather for News and Talk

Bench-Talk

September 2007 - Posts

  • Talking about change

     As one looks back at the changes that have happened in the bench rest world and in other areas one has to come up with the the idea that some were good and some were not so good. One only has to look at the automobile business and see some of the biggest changes and not all were good....... for example just lift the hood of any new  car and look at it for awhile. It takes some time just to figure out where the dipstick is. Detroit decided that by adding junk it would fix anything. We actually ended up with more rather than less junk. I was always taught that if you can eliminate a part and get whatever you were designing to do all it was intended to do that it was a accomplishment and the change was for the better. Example look at a Model 12 trigger guard... it has many moving parts. The Remington 31 has 9 and each one does two operations.

    Changes come in different forms also. In a lot of times change is made so the manufacturer can make more money. I can remember back in 1964 when we had a lot of big changes. Winchester told us that the claw was no longer needed and redesigned the model 70. When they got all done with that and other changes I would imagine they cut there machine time in half.  The public bought it, well some of the public bought it. The pre-64's are still worth more. Now, with the introduction of the computer and CNC we can do the claw and the rest of the features in less time and better. So, now we have come complete circle.

    One change that I think will be good and further the Bench rest world would be the introduction of fixed scopes and adjustable mounts. I believe that it will eliminate a lot of headaches. As I said above if you eliminate some parts and still get the job done its a good change and is a improvement. The scope has always been one of the the weak links. In looking at some ads for different scopes I see that they claim the socpe will do anything from telling you what  time it is to how to prepare and give you a recipe for the animal your shooting.  The more goodies the more there is to go wrong. I will also admit that some of it is okay  but where does it end ? You just about have to take a learning course in order to comprehend what you see when your looking threw the scope. Lets face it if  were looking to squeeze some more accuracy and depenability  out of todays bench rifle, I believe this is a good way to do just that.  Accuracy is a marriage of many things and I believe this is one of them. 

     

  • CHANGE

     

     Not everyone likes change. Seems like the older one gets the harder it becomes. The first words are usually, Why, What fore, nothing wrong with the way it is. I know for one when the internet was in its infancy and son Ryan was still in college I could not see why he needed a computer to do his work.... after all for 100's of years people graduated without one. Ryan is smarter than most and showed me just how I could better my business and keep all my parts and ordering on computer. Well, at first I was a bit reluctant but with an open mind I said OK. We started with a small Mac that he could use in school and also use in my shop to do the bookwork. The secretary hated it... in fact she quit because of it. We are still good friends and she is currently doing the bookwork for the school..... I have talked to her about it and we laugh together of the times we had figuring things out. I talk to a lot of people my age....not sure if I am a old duffer, old coot, or old fart as I could not reach Randy Robinette to find out the correct category that I am in because he is the official on this matter.  What I find is most people my age don't want anything  to do with computers and are not willing to learn. Like it or not they are here to stay.  Another good example of change is the cell phone..... Which so far I have avoided mainly because I am around a phone all day and some days it gets in the way of doing my work. I would love to talk on the phone all day but I get paid on what goes out the door not what comes in but you have to talk to the customer. I use to route it to the Secretary but everyone wanted to talk to Stan and training her was more work than talking to the customer. Don't mistake me here; I think cell phones can be a good thing. For instance in a emergency they can save lives and a lot of business use them regularly and could not function without them...... on the other hand I see people yakking while driving and text messaging and just wonder how much is actually needed. One thing I have to acknowledge that the cell phone like the computer is here to stay and if you think "MA Bell" is going to be burring lines underground forever..... You are badly mistaken. 

     

    Anyway, some change can be good  and I hope you will look at our new site in this way. We will be making some changes and adding things which will be much easier for us and hopefully will benefit you.  If there is something you want changed drop me an email and let’s talk about it. On the old site, I would post once a year usually around the first of the year and ask what people wanted...... very few times did I get a response. I can remember that Reed would respond on occasion and was very helpful and we do appreciate. I do hope you will bear with us as we switch over and give us the benefit of the doubt as some things may not work properly. I did appreciate the messages we would get when the chat on the old board was down or there was a problem.  Our policy of using your full name will still apply to chat and so far the guests have been policing the chat line very well.Thanks to all especially Francis Becigneul and Dick Grosbier who  are on almost every night and make sure everyone logs in correctly. This makes my work a lot easier. 

    In closing, we hope you like it and be sure to lets know your feelings.

    Posted Sep 21 2007, 01:14 AM by Stan Ware with 3 comment(s)
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  • From Dropped Barrels to Crowns

    This started today while I was looking for a micrometer that I had laid down while going to answer the phone…. I did find the mic, but it cost enough in time to buy at least another good one. I am not sure if this is the first or last stage of Alzheimer’s but one sure thing….. I have it.

    Anyway, it all took place in about 1983 when SGR had just gone into business full time. My father had passed away who was a smith and I had worked for him whenever and every chance I could muster up. I had just completed a 250 Savage barrel for a 700 Rem and was proud as a peacock. It really looked great and best yet I was on time with the customer. Dad would have been proud of me. I laid the barrel on the bench and turned around to clean up the lathe and suddenly a loud crash as the barrel had fallen off and hit the cement floor hard. I looked it over and could only find one ding on it at the muzzle end and it didn’t hurt the crown. I chucked it up in the lathe and was I in for a surprised when I turned on the lathe….. it looked like the waves on lake Okabena during a wind advisory. Now what ?

    After much pondering I decided to call Boots Obermeyer the barrel maker who made it and get his opinion. If any of you people know Boots, you know that he is as long winded as Randy Robinett. Don’t get me wrong here, I do like talking to Randy or Boots because both go very deep into whatever subject is at hand and you can come away with some valuable knowledge that you won’t get in any book. Anyway I pleaded my case to Boots and after doing so he didn’t seem too nervous… He said put in on and test it… I bet it will shoot. Well, I never did. Instead I ordered a new one from him and put that one on and that one did shoot. Well. looking for my micrometer today I ran across that barrel and had to stop to reminisce about it. I forgot to tell you that the conversation lasted thru dinner hour and into my afternoon lunch break… we talked about everything from 20 mm barrels he was making for the Army at the time to Crowns. I remember the crowns because he asked me what I did and I told him that I indicated in just like I was going to chamber it and then go with a 11 degree angle on the barrel with a 60 degree crown that just cuts the lands and cleans up the grooves. There was a long pause and then he said "Son your doing that right" You could have blown me over with a feather…. Here was a barrel maker that was telling me that I was doing it right. My cap no longer fit and a couple of buttons flew off. I will never forget that. One of these days I am going to put that barrel on a 700 and shoot it…. in the mean time ……. where is that @##$$& micrometer, I know its here somewhere.

  • 911 We Must Not Forget

    I deliberately did not post anything about 911 on the message board for a reason. I thought it would be nice to see just how much response we would get about it. It has been six years now and it looks like the lesson is being forgotten. We did have two Posts about it and both very good. I am sure to to people that lost loved ones on that day will never forget. Most of us think we are not affected by it in the outstate. People, think again, does it mean nothing to you that are at war whether we want to be or not ? I do not want to get political here as this is not the time for it and it only takes away from the 911 message. Seems to me that we as a society have so many other things to think about that we do not have time for what is the foundation of this country, or we have become political correct. Just what is political correctness you ask ? Here is my version……… Political correctness is a doctrine fostered by a illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition the it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

    We are now debating whether to bring home troops or not. What ever happens here may change the course of history dramatically. All I know them people want you to either be a Muslim or they want you dead. Make no mistake about it there is no in between. They have stated it publicly and are following thru with it all over the world.

    If I remember correctly at the 9/11/04 IBS Score Nationals at Painted Post New York the IBS had the respect and courage to have a moment of silence, which impressed me a lot. For if we ever forget about it we will repeat it. God help us if that happens. So, All of us including myself should try a little harder and show a little more Patriotism for the people that lost fathers, mothers, sons and daughters. They are the best in the world…… bar none. We have the best military in the world also , and all need our support everyday.
    So in closing…. GOD BLESS AMERICA, GOD BLESS THOSE THAT LOST LOVED ONES ON 911 AND GOD BLESS THE TROOPS.

    Posted Sep 12 2007, 01:23 PM by Stan Ware with 3 comment(s)
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  • Call Me- 8170 or 329J

    Do you remember these phone numbers. Back when I was a lad this is what was used. I was recently paging thru a Sports Afield magazine dated September of 1952. My attention caught the many ads, but very few had phone numbers. Most had a mail address and requested you mail them. How things have changed.In a  particular a article on “Adventures in Accuracy” written by Edwards “Pete” Brown.Bryan Gordon’s new wildcat cartridge is unusual- Not so much for what it proves but for what it disproves. This kind of sounds like a negative approach to explaining how Gordon topped a world record by shooting a 10-shot 200 Yard group measuring .744 inch at the DuBois, Pennsylvania, bench rest match in June. In doing it he also upset a lot of pet ideas on how to make a gun shoot with precision.His combination follows the standard bench rest match rifle lines in a number of respects. Rifle-action: F.N. Mauser, Trigger: Canjar set, Barrel: Douglas No. 9, 30 inch length, One and a eighth inch diameter at muzzel. 1-16 twist and 6 lands. Stock: Herters laminated blank, shaped by Bill Humphrey and fitted to this particular rifle by Roy Pullen. Pull: 12 7/8 inch. Weight: 17 pounds with lower stock extension. ( I am not sure but most of you out there can remember Herter’s of

    Waseca Minn.) I could talk volumes on this subject. Ammo: .22 Super Gee Gee designed by Gordon. Case length: 2- 1/16 inches. Base: Same as 30/06. Diameter at shoulder .460 inch. Shoulder angle: 30 degrees. Length of neck .410 inch. Load: 34 grains of 3031 Powder with Hornady 55 grain Spire point bullet. Case capacity: 43 grains. of 3031 ( this is not a load but indicates the volume of the case.) To give you a idea, it would be much like the 30×47 of today but would be necked down to .224.The article goes on to say…… Most unusual feature is the way Gordon loads for this rifle. The only tool he uses for reloading this rifle is a de-capper and primer seat. He doesn’t full length resize, neck size , expand the neck, or crimp, from one loading to the next. He merely re-primes the case, drops a powder charge and seats the bullets by hand. Sometimes they drop down the full length of the neck and sometimes thy protrude more. He followed this procedure merely because he found that with this particular rifle, seating to a standard size and crimping didn’t seem to make any difference. When the bullet seats to the full depth of the case neck it must move forward about 1/4 of a inch before it contacts the lands. There is a lower extension to the forend. This extension is made of walnut and is secured to a special floor plate. The extension doesn’t touch the forearm. Thus, when the rifle is rested on the sandbag for shooting the weight of the rifle will always take up at the same point just under the action. The idea if this was to avoid changes in the impact which might be occasioned by not always resting the forearm at the same point on the sandbag. The groove diameter is oversize at .2247 inch; the bore diameter is the standard .219After one has read all of this…. I am sure your question is How in the Sam Hill did this thing even hit the paper. Just when you think you got it all figured out and know what makes things tick…… you read this article when there were not computers in every house and Bench rest was still in its infancy. Anyway, it was a interesting article and I am sure you older gents will get a smile or two out of it. I know I did.

  • Ted Nugent on Border Security

    Listen to Ted on Border security. I think he has the right idea.

    Posted Sep 04 2007, 01:35 PM by Stan Ware with no comments
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  • NBRSA Hunter Hall of Fame 2008

    The NBRSA Hunter Hall of Fame has been updated to include the 2008 inductees. Congratulations folks, on some fine shooting. See the update.

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