9/7/2005 19:57:36 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> hi all;
9/7/2005 19:57:44 CDT 2005 Francis Becigneul--> Hello teacher. Did you have a nice day?;
9/7/2005 19:57:48 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> Jim;
9/7/2005 19:57:56 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> had a fair day;
9/7/2005 19:58:26 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> Hi Butch;
9/7/2005 19:58:27 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> Jim where did you stop last time? Visalia didn't have a hook-up on Monday.;
9/7/2005 19:58:28 CDT 2005 Dwayne Garfield--> br;
9/7/2005 19:58:36 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> Butch;
9/7/2005 19:58:41 CDT 2005 Dwayne Garfield--> bb;
9/7/2005 19:58:41 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> thought I would take a quick moment before we start to nite to talk about rule changes;
9/7/2005 19:58:49 CDT 2005 bob beyer--> hi all;
9/7/2005 19:59:04 CDT 2005 Francis Becigneul--> Go;
9/7/2005 19:59:14 CDT 2005 Dwayne Garfield--> lw;
9/7/2005 19:59:21 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> LW;
9/7/2005 19:59:22 CDT 2005 LW Moore--> folks;
9/7/2005 19:59:32 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> I plan on making rule change procedure an entire evening--say next wednesday;
9/7/2005 19:59:41 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> Can I ask that greetings be kept to a minimum to keep the session moving nicely?
9/7/2005 20:00:36 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> I that ok?
9/7/2005 20:00:50 CDT 2005 Admin--> Yes, good idea Paul;
9/7/2005 20:00:51 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> I think some ideas will come out of these sessions for rule changes and I want to make sure that we all understand that unless I specify otherwise, I will not be sheparding the changes;
9/7/2005 20:01:26 CDT 2005 Francis Becigneul--> Sounds fair
9/7/2005 20:01:42 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> silence
9/7/2005 20:01:46 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> the IBS has an excellent member sponsored system for change and let us plan on covering that next Wednesday evening
9/7/2005 20:02:07 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> great
9/7/2005 20:02:17 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> lets start tonite by reviewing Section IV-Safety
9/7/2005 20:02:18 CDT 2005 greg palman--> //32
9/7/2005 20:02:29 CDT 2005 Bill Sargent--> ?s still ok as we go along
9/7/2005 20:02:43 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> Can we at sometime back up to where we left off before we jumped so far ahead?
9/7/2005 20:02:43 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> yes bill- I would prefer that
9/7/2005 20:03:12 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> Paul--before we start on safety--what is on your mind that we skipped?
9/7/2005 20:03:24 CDT 2005 Francis Becigneul--> Flags
9/7/2005 20:03:27 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> in section III letter U
9/7/2005 20:03:47 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> tournament procedure and supplementary sight in targets
9/7/2005 20:03:48 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> ok--lets talk about III.U
9/7/2005 20:04:07 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> since it is tournament procedure it is needed at every match?
9/7/2005 20:04:38 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> Yes--the sight in targets are required at all registered matches
9/7/2005 20:05:07 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> ?
9/7/2005 20:05:11 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> "so I sight in target would have given Pete something to aim at to check zero when his sighter was ""blown away""?;",
9/7/2005 20:05:25 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> it got put in the rulebook when some folks were running into sight in problems and were shooting up backer boards and flags
9/7/2005 20:05:49 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> they are mounted before the first relay of each agg, there is no mention that they have to be taken down?;
9/7/2005 20:05:49 CDT 2005 greg palman--> jim, is that the warm up match so called?;
9/7/2005 20:05:50 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> Jim sight-in targets are separate from the target frame correct?
9/7/2005 20:06:02 CDT 2005 Francis Becigneul--> And yet when we brought it up Last night Tuesday. No one knew what we were talking about.
9/7/2005 20:06:12 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> I id
9/7/2005 20:06:17 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> I did
9/7/2005 20:06:18 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> sight in targets are separate from the target frame and normally are left hanging all day
9/7/2005 20:06:26 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> true
9/7/2005 20:06:46 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> And they are supposed to be up at all backers???
9/7/2005 20:06:52 CDT 2005 greg palman--> not done then regularly?,
9/7/2005 20:06:53 CDT 2005 Francis Becigneul--> Don't they use them in Maine and Vermont?,
9/7/2005 20:07:00 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> great and the IBS rules call for two large pieces of paper can that be at the two extremes of the range or anywhere above the flags?,
9/7/2005 20:07:03 CDT 2005 greg palman--> Don't in PA or MD,
9/7/2005 20:07:07 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> at some clubs it is mounted on a board above the center of the firing line--at others it is at end of each end of firing line,
9/7/2005 20:07:29 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> it great,
9/7/2005 20:07:44 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> So the rules say we need to do this???,
9/7/2005 20:07:51 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> thanks Jim I think this can help in a situation where a guy is having trouble,
9/7/2005 20:07:53 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> they are at Palmisanos, South Creek, Fairchance, painted Post.....;
9/7/2005 20:08:01 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> More sighy-in boards can be used Jim. We use 4 at San Gabriel for 5 frames,
9/7/2005 20:08:04 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> yes Leon,
9/7/2005 20:08:09 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> ok,
9/7/2005 20:08:29 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> Thanks for Backing up Jim I appreciate it,
9/7/2005 20:08:34 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> When you get a chance Jim I have a question on II, H, 4
9/7/2005 20:08:36 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> Francis--you mentioned flags--is there a ?,
9/7/2005 20:09:14 CDT 2005 Francis Becigneul--> Yes. When the book says a high flag is to be placed down by a referee is that to mean all the way down?--> ,
9/7/2005 20:09:25 CDT 2005 greg palman--> then I stand corrected...but I certainly missed them
9/7/2005 20:09:50 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> that is the discretion of the club and refereees--practice has been that high flags after the start of the match are laid down
9/7/2005 20:10:06 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> Yes
9/7/2005 20:10:25 CDT 2005 Francis Becigneul--> Well, the rules and the organization are universal so I think it should be the same at all ranges.;
9/7/2005 20:10:38 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> Shot flags especially
9/7/2005 20:10:42 CDT 2005 greg palman--> what page F?
9/7/2005 20:10:59 CDT 2005 Francis Becigneul--> Again in discussion last night there were those who felt it meant to make them legal.
9/7/2005 20:11:14 CDT 2005 greg palman--> that's the way I feel
9/7/2005 20:11:16 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> No time for legal
9/7/2005 20:11:31 CDT 2005 Dwayne Garfield--> whats the hurry
9/7/2005 20:11:57 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> Is This II R 1, and 2?;
9/7/2005 20:12:02 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> people need to learn how to set legal flags
9/7/2005 20:12:10 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> III R ?
9/7/2005 20:12:14 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> all competitors have a chance to make their flags legal before the match starts---a good practice is to make your flags no higher than the top of the bench to the bottom of the target and then they will not get lowered
9/7/2005 20:12:26 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> yes
9/7/2005 20:12:44 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> Yet the new ruling is not worded that way?
9/7/2005 20:13:08 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> referees should check them all and advise to make flags legal before shooting starts
9/7/2005 20:13:25 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> I Don't see that in the way it is written
9/7/2005 20:13:43 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> as long as a ref does it, it sounds legal to me
9/7/2005 20:13:50 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> Paul-it says the flags are to be below line of bullet flight--I am just suggesting a good way to ascertain that before the match starts
9/7/2005 20:14:07 CDT 2005 greg palman--> Leon," its ""custom"" to lay them down", but that isn't what the rulebook specifies;
9/7/2005 20:14:10 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> Very Good
9/7/2005 20:14:18 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> ok
9/7/2005 20:14:19 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> Yes Jim
9/7/2005 20:15:11 CDT 2005 bob beyer--> AS A REF i DO NOT WANT TO BE RESPONSABLE FOR SOMEONES FLAGS
9/7/2005 20:15:25 CDT 2005 bob beyer--> sorry the caps
9/7/2005 20:15:28 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> We can get carried away with the specificity of the rules and I disagree with many of you that rules can be made more specific--the more words that are used-the more they can be open for interpretation-
9/7/2005 20:15:36 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> Don't be a ref Bob
9/7/2005 20:16:12 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> Bob--you are not responsible for their flags-if they are too high--they get put down--some refs have chosen to just reset them
9/7/2005 20:16:18 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> I think it is like Jury duty, It is everyone rights and responsibility at one time or another
9/7/2005 20:16:40 CDT 2005 Dwayne Garfield--> I think if you have time to lay a persons flag down you could put it down and leave it in use
9/7/2005 20:16:57 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> how would a ref know what good height to set a high flag Jim
9/7/2005 20:17:01 CDT 2005 JIM GOODY--> can we move on?
9/7/2005 20:17:11 CDT 2005 David NMN Apple--> thank you
9/7/2005 20:17:27 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> here is an example of a rule change idea--if someone does not like how it is written, they can write an agenda item-get 25 signatures and have it put up for vote at winter meeting
9/7/2005 20:17:38 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> Thanks Jim
9/7/2005 20:17:49 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> true
9/7/2005 20:17:54 CDT 2005 Francis Becigneul--> I would be unhappy if my high flag was dropped to the ground and the next week Joes high flag was taken down two inches at the next range.
9/7/2005 20:18:06 CDT 2005 *** Grosbier--> It is not the referees job to do what the shooter should have done correctly in the first place Dwayne
9/7/2005 20:18:11 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> as it stands now--lowered can mean laid down or just adjusted
9/7/2005 20:18:22 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> Jim could I get clarification on II,H,4;
9/7/2005 20:18:29 CDT 2005 Dwayne Garfield--> just be nice guy
9/7/2005 20:18:51 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> What is the proper way to pick a gun out of a front rest and still be legal
9/7/2005 20:18:56 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> that is why I gave the advice of no higher than top of bench to bottom of target --in 27 years of shooting i have never had a flag put down using that method
9/7/2005 20:19:32 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> Leon--take hold of bottom of rifle and raise it straight up without lifting the rest
9/7/2005 20:19:49 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> so the heavy rest has an advantage?
9/7/2005 20:19:51 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> If it comes out without lifting the rest it is LEGAL
9/7/2005 20:20:08 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> if the ref would do there job before the shooting starts there would be no high flags;
9/7/2005 20:20:20 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> correct--in terms of not being clamped too tight;
9/7/2005 20:20:25 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> Thank you;
9/7/2005 20:20:36 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> Thank you;
9/7/2005 20:21:08 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> any other items from sections II or III?;
9/7/2005 20:21:38 CDT 2005 Francis Becigneul--> Silence;
9/7/2005 20:21:47 CDT 2005 greg palman--> no;
9/7/2005 20:22:02 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> Greg--before we move on are you ok with the explanation of the flag thing?;
9/7/2005 20:22:14 CDT 2005 greg palman--> yes jim;
9/7/2005 20:22:56 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> ok-one item mentioned the other nite was someone firing at the word-fire--see Safety section paragraph B;
9/7/2005 20:23:14 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> Jim I have a question on A 5 and 6...;
9/7/2005 20:23:38 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> The VHA Varmint Hunters Association are running IBS 600 yard matches...;
9/7/2005 20:24:01 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> and their safety regimen is not what our standard bolts out rule is...;
9/7/2005 20:24:17 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> ouch--what are they doing;
9/7/2005 20:24:18 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> they go by the rule 5 foot away from the bench ...;
9/7/2005 20:24:35 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> has their been any problems there?;
9/7/2005 20:24:57 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> I found it very odd at the one match I shot
9/7/2005 20:25:20 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> you mean you were not allowed at bench until target crew came back?
9/7/2005 20:25:35 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> would the IBS entertain removing five foot rule and go with strick bolts out?
9/7/2005 20:25:43 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> exactly
9/7/2005 20:25:53 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> but your bolts could be in...
9/7/2005 20:25:59 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> really weird
9/7/2005 20:26:10 CDT 2005 greg palman--> I hope not...personally
9/7/2005 20:26:19 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> bolts in is NOT OK until after the range officer command
9/7/2005 20:26:26 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> right
9/7/2005 20:26:41 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> I will follow up with Tony and Jeff on this one
9/7/2005 20:26:53 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> ***-pls capture that
9/7/2005 20:27:07 CDT 2005 greg palman--> Jim...safety A 1 and 2...they differ from the NBRSA in the cease fire area???
9/7/2005 20:27:08 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> that's when I commented, I was shown the book where the five foot doesn't say bolts out and that the other rule is the alternative to bolts out;
9/7/2005 20:27:16 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> Jim I feel Shooters should not be allowed at the benches until the Target crew comes back. That is the way we do things at San Gabriel.
9/7/2005 20:27:30 CDT 2005 *** Grosbier--> It would seem to me if they have adequate time to do it their way it is even safer, I got it Jim;
9/7/2005 20:27:45 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> these are not alternative rules --they are additive
9/7/2005 20:28:12 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> see IV.B and III.M.3.c;
9/7/2005 20:28:18 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> At the discretion is where they had their interpretation;
9/7/2005 20:28:39 CDT 2005 greg palman--> "nbrsa says no shot after the ""beginning"" of the command cease fire...IBS says ""after"" the command cease fire. That seems to be a difference in methods?;"
9/7/2005 20:28:42 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> great I will let them know;
9/7/2005 20:29:03 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> the discretion is whether or not a rifle can be placed on the rest--the remainder of that sentence says musts must be out;
9/7/2005 20:29:06 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> Safety is Paramount to shooters wants.;
9/7/2005 20:29:28 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> correct Greg;
9/7/2005 20:30:19 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> one item often that is a problem is when a range officer calls cease fire in the middle of a match--if he says cease fire and not hold your fire--then there had better be no shots after that;
9/7/2005 20:30:23 CDT 2005 greg palman--> "jim..the wording is ""shall constitute grounds for disqualification"" Is that mandatory DQ or not?;"
9/7/2005 20:30:52 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> what happened was they thought that by following A 1 or 5 they could skip A 6 or 2 as it is listed in the download;
9/7/2005 20:30:55 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> true Jim that is a safety issue;
9/7/2005 20:31:00 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> DNQ;
9/7/2005 20:31:07 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> DQ is not used;
9/7/2005 20:31:16 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> if it is clear that the person fired after cease fire --they are disqualified;
9/7/2005 20:31:40 CDT 2005 greg palman--> ok tks;
9/7/2005 20:31:54 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> is it when the command begins Jim?;
9/7/2005 20:32:24 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> after stephen--see wording in IV.C.1
9/7/2005 20:32:39 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> or can a person shoot during the command
9/7/2005 20:33:01 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> so the e of fire is the end of the command, after that is after the command
9/7/2005 20:33:05 CDT 2005 John Scopelliti--> Jim:
9/7/2005 20:33:06 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> can not fire before commence fire nor after cease fire
9/7/2005 20:33:12 CDT 2005 greg palman--> jim what about loaded round in the action but bolt open before commence fire? we do not allow that here in Maine
9/7/2005 20:33:31 CDT 2005 *** Grosbier--> or anywhere in IBS
9/7/2005 20:33:59 CDT 2005 Francis Becigneul--> Not allowed in IBS
9/7/2005 20:34:00 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> greg--it is not allowed--all bolts must be open and to rear with no round on the ramp or in chamber--III.M.3.c I believe
9/7/2005 20:34:15 CDT 2005 Stephen Perry--> thanks for the time Jim have to go to an emergency meeting at San Gabriel
9/7/2005 20:34:31 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> see you stephen
9/7/2005 20:34:51 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> III M 3 c correct for the location
9/7/2005 20:35:10 CDT 2005 greg palman--> ok jim...never saw it in the rules...thanks
9/7/2005 20:35:15 CDT 2005 John Scopelliti--> Jim: In IV B," ""Open Actions""", what is the legality of placing a Bolt Body in an action at the loading bench?;
9/7/2005 20:35:15 CDT 2005 Mike Hibbs--> ber
9/7/2005 20:35:20 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> so no ammo till commence is given
9/7/2005 20:35:34 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> John--it is not supposed to be done---period
9/7/2005 20:35:46 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> Paul--that is correct
9/7/2005 20:36:02 CDT 2005 David NMN Apple--> even with the firing pin out??
9/7/2005 20:36:14 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> the few seconds saved will win you nothing...
9/7/2005 20:36:24 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> if a competitor needs a trigger adjusted or something like that--they should go to referees and get permission and help doing it in a secure area
9/7/2005 20:36:37 CDT 2005 David NMN Apple--> thank you
9/7/2005 20:36:40 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> correct david
9/7/2005 20:37:36 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> we have to use our heads and good common sense--everything can not be covered by rules--we can think through things and use our heads
9/7/2005 20:38:04 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> does everyone understand the difference between hold your fire and cease fire?
9/7/2005 20:38:21 CDT 2005 greg palman--> no
9/7/2005 20:38:22 CDT 2005 Francis Becigneul--> Yes
9/7/2005 20:38:29 CDT 2005 LW Moore--> yes
9/7/2005 20:38:32 CDT 2005 John Scopelliti--> Maybe
9/7/2005 20:38:39 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> E emergency commands.... IBS give one additional minute I just noticed this last night... NBRSA gives 2, some clubs I have shot at get this confused...;
9/7/2005 20:39:14 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> a range officer can command hold your fire-clear your rifle by opening the bolt or firing when a target comes loose or some other event such as that--he then checks that everyone has a clear rifle
9/7/2005 20:39:35 CDT 2005 greg palman--> ok
9/7/2005 20:39:38 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> "in an emergency-he says ""cease fire""--that means--no shot better be fired after that;",
9/7/2005 20:39:47 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> What if you have a malfunction in your bolt and cant get it opened
9/7/2005 20:40:16 CDT 2005 *** Grosbier--> Tell Range officer
9/7/2005 20:40:20 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> Leon--then you tell the range officer and leave the bolt closed and do not fire the rifle
9/7/2005 20:40:56 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> ok then do you get to remove it from the range after cease fire
9/7/2005 20:40:57 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> it is the competitors responsibility to get the rifle removed to a safe place... I heard that somewhere in the NBRSA, is that listed here any for IBS?;
9/7/2005 20:41:00 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> Paul--you are correct and it has caused confusion
9/7/2005 20:41:55 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> I think the one minute is just something for those that shoot both disciplines to be aware of
9/7/2005 20:42:06 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> rifle can not be removed until it is made safe--that is not listed --it just makes sense that a rifle is not to be removed from the firing line with a live round in it or a bolt in it until it has been determined that it is safe
9/7/2005 20:42:30 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> ok
9/7/2005 20:42:59 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> any questions on Sportsmanlike conduct orpeople downrange?
9/7/2005 20:43:19 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> during changing of relays, in front of the bench is downrange?;
9/7/2005 20:43:30 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> that is correct Paul
9/7/2005 20:43:45 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> some find it easy to walk there, I find it could be a hazard;
9/7/2005 20:44:13 CDT 2005 John Scopelliti--> What does a shooter do if he wishes to remove the sunshade in front of the bench? After all, it is downrange.;
9/7/2005 20:44:20 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> Exec BOard takes lots of heat on that one--but we almost had an individual shot two different times--due to habit of walking in front of benches
9/7/2005 20:44:29 CDT 2005 David NMN Apple--> isn't it in the rules that no one is allowed down range after the warm up?
9/7/2005 20:44:56 CDT 2005 Francis Becigneul--> It stays there until the completion of the aggregate or yardage
9/7/2005 20:45:01 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> It only makes sense not to go across the line that all muzzle must be in front of
9/7/2005 20:45:03 CDT 2005 Francis Becigneul--> Same as your flags
9/7/2005 20:45:20 CDT 2005 *** Grosbier--> Range personnel and referees
9/7/2005 20:45:34 CDT 2005 John Scopelliti--> That's what I thought.
9/7/2005 20:45:38 CDT 2005 David NMN Apple--> right *** NOT competitors
9/7/2005 20:45:42 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> no-one downrange except range personnel and refs after the first shot is fired
9/7/2005 20:45:47 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> if they will do it for you, they may have other things to do;
9/7/2005 20:46:26 CDT 2005 *** Grosbier--> Range personnel can be competitors
9/7/2005 20:46:47 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> Are we ready to move into Section V?
9/7/2005 20:46:54 CDT 2005 *** Grosbier--> still better not touch a flag I would think
9/7/2005 20:47:02 CDT 2005 John Scopelliti--> "Does leaving a bench before the ""Cease Fire"" fall under the Sportsmanship area?;",
9/7/2005 20:47:05 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> I am satisfied with what was discussed here
9/7/2005 20:47:40 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> John--yes--it has been administered that way and many ranges make it a range rule that no competitor can leave until after cease fire
9/7/2005 20:48:17 CDT 2005 John Scopelliti--> Good. I think it should be mandatory at all ranges.
9/7/2005 20:48:53 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> John--good idea and that would be another one that can be written up-get the signatures and get on the agenda
9/7/2005 20:49:11 CDT 2005 greg palman--> jim..on persons down range....its ok after the warm up match but before match 1 of the agg..correct?
9/7/2005 20:49:13 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> John that is not written into the rules as you worded it, if you feel that way you should probably go through what it takes to get that added;
9/7/2005 20:49:24 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> Greg--no
9/7/2005 20:49:32 CDT 2005 greg palman--> ??
9/7/2005 20:49:56 CDT 2005 greg palman--> is the warm up considered part of the agg?
9/7/2005 20:50:00 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> IV.g--says no person down range after the registered agg has begun
9/7/2005 20:50:20 CDT 2005 *** Grosbier--> not after 1st record shot is fired ??
9/7/2005 20:50:34 CDT 2005 greg palman--> warm up match is not record
9/7/2005 20:50:35 CDT 2005 David NMN Apple--> read the rules
9/7/2005 20:50:47 CDT 2005 LW Moore--> good point greg
9/7/2005 20:50:53 CDT 2005 greg palman--> I am but Don't read it that way and am looking for clarification
9/7/2005 20:50:59 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> probably an area where wording could be more specific----------i just remember the intent when it was put in the rules
9/7/2005 20:51:02 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> "awards are given does that make the warm up ""registered"";",
9/7/2005 20:51:17 CDT 2005 greg palman--> I can see that Jim, but........;
9/7/2005 20:51:49 CDT 2005 greg palman--> wording leads one to believe its ok after WU since it is not part of the agg
9/7/2005 20:51:52 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> and thus making it part of the registered agg?;
9/7/2005 20:51:53 CDT 2005 *** Grosbier--> is the intent no one down range after first warm up shot fired ? In your opinion;
9/7/2005 20:52:33 CDT 2005 Al Nyhus--> Evening everyone.;
9/7/2005 20:52:58 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> ***--yes that is my opinion and yes Greg-I see how it can be read--however-lets consider why the rule was ever written. I can not reword the rules nor can the board except for safety items--I will run this one by the Exec Board;
9/7/2005 20:53:32 CDT 2005 *** Grosbier--> Smokin Joe!;
9/7/2005 20:53:41 CDT 2005 greg palman--> jim I can readily see why it should say after the match begins including the WU...or something like that;
9/7/2005 20:54:26 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> The safety section is only section where the exec board can rewrite a rule and you have raised a good point that I will followup on;
9/7/2005 20:54:35 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> is the warm up meant to warm up the shooter or all his equipment including flags...;
9/7/2005 20:54:38 CDT 2005 *** Grosbier--> I can see it that way that's just not what I was ever told it really should be clarified IMHO;
9/7/2005 20:55:09 CDT 2005 greg palman--> yes it should;
9/7/2005 20:55:11 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> if it includes all equipment is the time or allowance to make a quick adjustment before the record begins... is that the intent of warm up;
9/7/2005 20:55:16 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> Ira farnsworth used to warm up my flags!!! He always fired his first shot at dirt below target-regardless of where flags were;
9/7/2005 20:55:39 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> Good ol Ira;
9/7/2005 20:55:48 CDT 2005 greg palman--> typical Vermonter!!!;
9/7/2005 20:55:57 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> lol;
9/7/2005 20:56:20 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> Paul--warm up was not intended to adjust flags--we could not set personal flags when I started-we had to use range flags--warm up was to make sure we were on target;
9/7/2005 20:56:39 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> I think going through this with shooters on this media is a great thing
9/7/2005 20:57:04 CDT 2005 John Scopelliti--> I'm with you Paul!
9/7/2005 20:57:21 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> great. I have never thought of it that way but it looked as if some though it could be construed that way
9/7/2005 20:57:31 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> Lets hang tight for Friday night--i should be able to be here--but hope I will be out of the anesthesia
9/7/2005 20:57:57 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> lots of the boy will be traveling Friday
9/7/2005 20:58:02 CDT 2005 John Scopelliti--> Jim, good luck with the procedure.;
9/7/2005 20:58:19 CDT 2005 Francis Becigneul--> Don't let them anesthetize your fingers
9/7/2005 20:58:21 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> should we forestall Friday night and reschedule for Monday?
9/7/2005 20:58:26 CDT 2005 greg palman--> Jim, at least the doc isn't a proctologist;
9/7/2005 20:58:34 CDT 2005 JIM GOODY--> the 20th maine is going to vermont and you know the rest of the deal
9/7/2005 20:58:35 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> there is vermont and camillus this weekend
9/7/2005 20:58:38 CDT 2005 greg palman--> YES!!!!!!!!!
9/7/2005 20:58:38 CDT 2005 John Scopelliti--> That sounds like a smart idea.
9/7/2005 20:58:39 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> It all up to You and ADMIN
9/7/2005 20:58:47 CDT 2005 Admin--> Its ok here Jim
9/7/2005 20:58:50 CDT 2005 *** Grosbier--> works for me
9/7/2005 20:58:55 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> greg--no but he used a borescope on me the other day!!
9/7/2005 20:59:03 CDT 2005 Bill Sargent--> yup would postpone
9/7/2005 20:59:11 CDT 2005 greg palman--> did he wipe the Kroil off?
9/7/2005 20:59:14 CDT 2005 Leon Garfield--> I agree wait till monday
9/7/2005 20:59:16 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> ok--then Monday it is
9/7/2005 20:59:17 CDT 2005 pbike paul Becigneul--> thanks jim
9/7/2005 20:59:19 CDT 2005 Dwayne Garfield--> nite guys
9/7/2005 20:59:25 CDT 2005 Ron Baldner--> Thanks Jim
9/7/2005 20:59:29 CDT 2005 John Scopelliti--> Whats the topic?
9/7/2005 20:59:32 CDT 2005 bob beyer--> thanks a lot jim
9/7/2005 20:59:33 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> one thing I would like to revisit from Monday-gator bags
9/7/2005 20:59:34 CDT 2005 Admin--> Thanks Jim for another great session
9/7/2005 20:59:46 CDT 2005 *** Grosbier--> yes
9/7/2005 20:59:51 CDT 2005 Francis Becigneul--> Admit it. You hate the gator bag
9/7/2005 20:59:55 CDT 2005 greg palman--> your at the podium jim
9/7/2005 20:59:58 CDT 2005 Jim Borden--> topic monday is group shooting rules--but that applies to score for stocks, etc;